tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post2749469978365968139..comments2023-03-21T05:49:21.694-04:00Comments on Seeking Avalon: Open Letter: To Elizabeth BearAvalon's Willowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-43665456524060607952014-01-22T20:49:45.805-05:002014-01-22T20:49:45.805-05:00*claps*
WOW. Just...wow. I'll admit that for a...*claps*<br />WOW. Just...wow. I'll admit that for a long, long time I was one of those annoying white fangirls who insisted that "color didn't matter," "go write it yourself," etc. But my thoughts on it have been evolving, and your post was what finally persuaded me. <br />Thanks for writing this. It really opened my eyes, and I now I can't agree more with you.<br />Note to others interested in race in "geek" genres: The book Fic by Anne Jamison has some interesting, though far too short, thoughts on this. Gay-androidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387231979610426315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-86351196920937152042013-12-03T12:47:32.082-05:002013-12-03T12:47:32.082-05:00Long after the fact, but thank you for posting, an...Long after the fact, but thank you for posting, and doing so with such uncensored intimacy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-9807876596840208232009-10-24T15:54:52.541-04:002009-10-24T15:54:52.541-04:00It actually makes me cry tears of joy when I read ...It actually makes me cry tears of joy when I read things like this. It tells me that I, a young black woman who couldn't even write a black heroine until she was fifteen (because I grew up with the notion that black girls - or rather non-white girls in general - COULDN'T be heroines), am not alone in my fight. I'm not alone. There are other people who get it. Hopefully, together we can try to do something about this. Change never came from the centre anyway. Always from the margins.<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-11314341629219218132009-05-19T20:50:40.656-04:002009-05-19T20:50:40.656-04:00Cabaray:I let your comment be published because I'...<STRONG>Cabaray:</STRONG>I let your comment be published because I'm going to put down your lack of knowledge about the Noble!Savage to you being from The Netherlands.<br /><br />I suggest, however, that you find some works on racial stereotypes and tropes translated so you don't annoy others with your ignorance. The internet is large and multi-lingual. And if you're going to pop your head up in these kinds of conversations, you should know what the heck you're talking about.Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-28181865969414015832009-05-19T05:25:00.000-04:002009-05-19T05:25:00.000-04:00Why Teal'C in the list, He saves himself and his p...Why Teal'C in the list, He saves himself and his people from slavery. By strength and determination he reaches his goals. He has courage and honour. That he is solemn and alone (at first, he befriends over time) is more because he is a warrior of great standing and not a earthling. But even that he overcomes. He is respected, well admired and a rolemodel indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-23013739834921996822009-03-19T20:36:00.000-04:002009-03-19T20:36:00.000-04:00I remember being a pre-teen and really loving Anne...I remember being a pre-teen and really loving Anne McCaffrey's Dragonrider of Pern series. About six books in, I asked my mother where all the black, Asian, and Hispanic people were in this future of mankind? Yes, it took me about six books to notice that none of the character's were described as people of color- I was young. Were we not allowed on the ships that took the settlers to Pern? Since then, I've continued to read SF/F but it's hard to own the stories when the heroine/hero is always fair-skinned, light-eyed, and BLONDE with long, flowy hair- the opposite of everything I am. <BR/><BR/>Thank you for this article. I'm surprised it took me so long to find out that other people noticed this issue as well.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13133945099427777716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-83158986627912777842009-03-11T17:53:00.000-04:002009-03-11T17:53:00.000-04:00I've been reading all about this and digesting it ...I've been reading all about this and digesting it all, and I feel just awful. <BR/><BR/>Everything you've said in this post is 100% true, and why didn't I see any of it before? How could I have watched 5 entire seasons of Angel without questioning Gunn's story arc?<BR/><BR/>I, like everyone else, fancy myself Not Racist. But obviously I have a big ol' blind spot when it comes to science fiction.<BR/><BR/>This has been a painful experience. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-80364536673198342482009-03-07T04:19:00.000-05:002009-03-07T04:19:00.000-05:00Whiner:PS There Aren't Enough Spoons On The Planet...<STRONG>Whiner:</STRONG><BR/><BR/>PS <A HREF="http://inalasahl.livejournal.com/149900.html?style=mine" REL="nofollow">There Aren't Enough Spoons On The Planet</A> - you may want to read that.Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-26285251223111954052009-03-05T11:01:00.000-05:002009-03-05T11:01:00.000-05:00Eloquent and aching and brilliantly incisive comme...Eloquent and aching and brilliantly incisive commentary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-78082177137156849542009-03-03T01:19:00.000-05:002009-03-03T01:19:00.000-05:00Whiner:More likely to produce results = TONE! Also...<STRONG>Whiner:</STRONG><BR/><BR/>More likely to produce results = TONE! Also? <A HREF="http://skywardprodigal.livejournal.com/740711.html?style=mine" REL="nofollow">Trufax, if someone wants to hide something from a racist, they jut need to put it in a book</A>Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-48740627599531665802009-03-02T22:53:00.000-05:002009-03-02T22:53:00.000-05:00I agree that it is not the job of every member of ...I agree that it is not the job of every member of the minority to educate the clueless majority when they ask questions. <BR/><BR/>But at the same time, even the most well-meaning outsider is likely to miss patterns and stereotypes and repetitions that grate incessantly on the members of the minority. Because the outsiders can't see it. Even if they've read the standard introductory readings - there's a <B>lot</B> that knapsack doesn't tell you. <BR/><BR/>It is not the minority's job to explain in exquisite detail why the unintentionally stereotypical representations are painful, or to 'justify' their reactions. But it would be greatly appreciated if people gave some examples of what they <I>did</I> want to see - takes a hell of a lot less time and makes people less defensive on both sides. And is more likely to produce results, I suspect.<BR/><BR/>(My husband never could understand why I burst into tears at a particular comic book character's death and refused to continue reading the series... but to me, she was the Only Hero Ever who was 'like me', and they'd killed her off, indicating she wasn't important.)Whinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211731698182417270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-64574759652086022232009-02-13T11:30:00.000-05:002009-02-13T11:30:00.000-05:00What is it with people feeling the need to clarify...What is it with people feeling the need to clarify their ethnicity/culture/race/color of their underpants before stating how much they agree with you? I mean, fuck. That is NOT good.<BR/><BR/>So, I am an 18-year-old female from Latin America (you know, that jungly place where everybody looks like Mexicans and where all the food is spicy), which means I have every bloody right to agree with you. However, I also happen to be white, so you better give me some points for being able to understand all the nonsense you colored folks come up with. Good for me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-87591563773705448722009-01-19T19:06:00.000-05:002009-01-19T19:06:00.000-05:00Re: GeordiGeordi La Forge was a two-fer. He was bl...Re: Geordi<BR/><BR/>Geordi La Forge was a <A HREF="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwoferTokenMinority" REL="nofollow">two-fer</A>. He was blind and black. To me there's always been something off about a character who could provide so much more to the show, who was used so infrequently and seemed to be around to say that in this future even someone with <EM>two doses</EM> of 'Not-an-able-bodied-white-man' could be part of something greater/serve in Starfleet, etc...Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-29393372215995902232009-01-19T11:21:00.000-05:002009-01-19T11:21:00.000-05:00"It's about Geordi being blind."I'm not really sur..."It's about Geordi being blind."<BR/><BR/>I'm not really sure what the intention was using that example but as a (white, and admittedly not very familiar with Star Trek) disabled person, it struck me as rather qualitatively different from Ronon and TJ and Ged and most of the other instances you listed. Was there something particularly attention-worthy or fraught about the portrayal itself, or...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-53512210003780174052009-01-19T10:23:00.000-05:002009-01-19T10:23:00.000-05:00I came over here from The Red Shoes' LJ. I said th...I came over here from The Red Shoes' LJ. I said there:<BR/><BR/>Being the parent of four now grown-up Asian Americans, I spent a couple of decades watching for, and seldom finding, mainstream Asian American characters who weren't The China Doll (female), The Wimp (male), The Nerdy Brain (either), or The Martial Arts Expert (either, though more often male). And then there are the Ancient Mysteries of the Orient (which is, y'know, all one place...). So--yeah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-71087802711268706272009-01-19T07:14:00.000-05:002009-01-19T07:14:00.000-05:00It's about Geordi being blind. I've read this a nu...<I>It's about Geordi being blind. </I><BR/><BR/>I've read this a number of times in the context of what else you're saying here, but I'm still not sure I understand what you're saying. Is it that you mean that by being blind Geordi is lesser than the other team members (as the other examples you cite seem to be about the PoC characters being lesser in various ways than the white characters?<BR/><BR/>If so (and I apologize in advance if I've just misunderstood you), I guess that depends on your point of view (as it were). As a blind person I don't consider myself a lesser specimen of humanity (nor am I thrilled if other people make that assumption about me) and nor did I think Geordi was. In fact, they went out of their way to show him as an equally contributing member of the team (which led to a whole other can of worms about how that completely fudged the implications of disability, but that's another story). To me despite any problems with handling of his disability it was fantastic to see a person with a disability as a crew member, and I'm disappointed that to you his being blind was a drawback to making him the PoC character you wanted to see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-42281725625449315892009-01-19T02:57:00.000-05:002009-01-19T02:57:00.000-05:00Hear hear.Thank you for this. I've gone round and...Hear hear.<BR/>Thank you for this. I've gone round and round in circles so many times on this issue with white friends and colleagues, and you hit this one out of the park.little lighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04348805482325856358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-20669247085796151262009-01-17T13:55:00.000-05:002009-01-17T13:55:00.000-05:00U.K. LeGuin wrote about 'Whitewashing Earthsea' on...U.K. LeGuin wrote about 'Whitewashing Earthsea' on her website. Except for Tenar, none of the heroes of Earthsea has any business being portrayed by a white actor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-29966332806657211062009-01-17T07:37:00.000-05:002009-01-17T07:37:00.000-05:00Wow, I wasn't even aware that there IS a live acti...Wow, I wasn't even aware that there IS a live action cast for Dragonball Z. :) In Europe only anime is known. <BR/>Indeed, the full white cast is very stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-74848092282677908372009-01-17T00:57:00.000-05:002009-01-17T00:57:00.000-05:00This is one of the fiercest (in the best way), wel...This is one of the fiercest (in the best way), well-articulated and on-point responses to racism and White appropriation/misrepresentation of people of color images / cultures that i have read in a long, long time. Thank you so much for writing this. Will definitely link to it on my blog.Rona Fernandezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00052827397873271782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-31299487162913811422009-01-16T20:03:00.000-05:002009-01-16T20:03:00.000-05:00Taisin:You appear to have misread my words / or th...<STRONG>Taisin</STRONG>:<BR/><BR/>You appear to have misread my words / or they were unclear to you. I'm referencing the <STRONG>live action</STRONG> casts of Avatar, Dragonball Z and Sci Fi's Earth Sea, where the main protagonists have all or were all cast with white actors.Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-40287384950057991482009-01-16T19:57:00.000-05:002009-01-16T19:57:00.000-05:00"they're all white. So too are the major Heroes of..."they're all white. So too are the major Heroes of Dragonball Z. "<BR/>No. The major Heroes of Dragonball Z are japanese. It's anime. From Japan. Made for Japan, by the japanese. Japanese authors possibly can be accused of rasism, but hardly the rasism you talk about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-26776811692148795042009-01-16T19:45:00.000-05:002009-01-16T19:45:00.000-05:00tlc22:Oh your blazing wit, your cutting remarks. O...<STRONG>tlc22:</STRONG><BR/><BR/>Oh your blazing wit, your cutting remarks. Oh I am slain! <STRONG>Not!</STRONG><BR/><BR/>I'm a Post Colonial Native - The Matter of Britain <EM>is</EM> my birthright, one of the few perks of slavery and imperialism.Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-76638682449214847282009-01-16T18:23:00.000-05:002009-01-16T18:23:00.000-05:00Just one question. Why do you title your blog afte...Just one question. Why do you title your blog after a white myth? Walk your talk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4506995090336963455.post-49701918457972201702009-01-16T05:53:00.000-05:002009-01-16T05:53:00.000-05:00Last dreg links:Juliansinger - Well fine, I existR...Last dreg links:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://juliansinger.livejournal.com/517206.html" REL="nofollow">Juliansinger - Well fine, I exist</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://rydra-wong.livejournal.com/135873.html" REL="nofollow">Rydra-wong - PSA Redux</A><BR/><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://ladyjax.livejournal.com/614213.html?style=mine" REL="nofollow">Ladyjax - A parting of the ways</A>Avalon's Willowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07539301720154191607noreply@blogger.com